Q & A with co-editors Abbe DeLozier and Vickie Karp

September 2007 was the one year anniversary of the publishing of the book, "HACKED! High Tech Election Theft in America" Editors Abbe Waldman DeLozier and Vickie Karp compiled an astounding and weighty treatise on the issue of electronic vote fraud, its implication to the loss of our democratic process, and why Americans must start TODAY to reclaim their elections. "HACKED!" is considered by many to be an essential primer on the topic of electronic voting, yet still manages to be something of a compelling page-turner. The stories and evidence relayed in "HACKED!" seem almost unbelievable at times, but all the documentation is there. The reader will also get acquainted with some of the most patriotic heroes and heroines in America - committed group of individuals who will not rest until citizens regain control of our own elections--in some cases risking their reputations, their livelihoods, and perhaps more for this cause.

Q: How has the book been received since its publication?

Abbe: The feedback has been very positive! We believe we accomplished what we set out to do: Educate people new to the topic and give them a comprehensive overview, from the viewpoints and writing styles of national experts from across the country - as well as give additional documentation to those already familiar with the topic. We are gearing up for another big marketing push now that we are in the Presidential election season to hopefully educate another round of readers.

Vickie: We believe that the book has and is playing a part in educating the American electorate, that it has been one piece of a puzzle assembled by valiant activists all across the country to whom the topic of stolen elections has become a passion. For this group, this topic rules our lives. These people are constantly churning out new ideas, new actions, new petitions, videos, documentaries, legislative proposals. We're proud to be working with these people, some of the finest patriots imaginable.

Q: The thing that is most remarkable about your backgrounds is that neither of you are what one might consider political animals, but rather just truly concerned citizens who chose to bring this book to the forefront. Why was it so important for you to get this word out?

Abbe: I've been a Realtor for over 20 years and have become very concerned about my country. I love America and value so much the freedoms we have here - that's why I've become so concerned that our elections are not safe. Our whole tenet of freedom has been shattered because we no longer have fair elections: Something so cherished by all of us in America. To this day I do not think the public realizes how serious a problem this is, nor the extent to which our elections have been manipulated and stolen.

Vickie: I've also been a Realtor for over 20 years, (which is how Abbe and I met.) When I learned in 2003 that elections were probably being stolen on a regular basis, I was at first unbelieving. How could that be true in America!? But it is!! I began by giving speeches on it to Toastmasters. But the more I learned about it, the more compelled I was to try to expose this travesty and to help to turn this thing around. I was lucky to enlist the interest and passion that Abbe brings to the table, and to have her as a partner on this book, as well as many other media events she has produced to expose this topic to the public.

Q: And was that what compelled you to tackle this issue, because you felt it wasn't being talked about and people were not getting the real information?

Abbe: Absolutely. We both realized that if elections are being stolen it doesn't matter what other areas of political activity we worked on or were passionate about because elections are central to everything else. So it was the best place to put our energy. When we began the book, most people did not understand the gravity of what is going on with elections, and wouldn't even believe this information when they heard it. We realized that there had just not been enough coverage and we wanted to educate people.

Q: Who are some of the experts who contributed to your book?

Abbe: We were quite fortunate to receive for the book the works of some of the most dedicated and knowledgeable people in the country on this issue: Bev Harris of Black Box Voting, who has delivered to the public the most clear-cut evidence backed by computer experts that these voting systems can be hacked, and who is the subject of the Emmy award nominated HBO documentary "Hacking Democracy"; Lynn Landes, a journalist from Philadelphia who has been studying and writing about the issue for years; Victoria Collier, daughter and niece of James and Kenneth Collier who documented over 25 years of election fraud history in their book, Votescam: The Stealing of America; Kathleen Wynne, former Associate Director of Black Box Voting who has helped Bev Harris with research and investigations and videotaped many incriminating moments of their findings; Bob Fitrakis and Harvey Wasserman, who have been researching what happened in Ohio in the 2004 election and have already written dozens of articles on vote fraud (freepress.org) and compiled two books on the topic of stolen elections, including the threat of electronic voting; Jeremiah Akin, a computer programmer from California who discovered the software of the Sequoia voting systems and details many of its vulnerabilities in his chapter; we also have a chapter from Rep. Cynthia McKinney about why the current attempts at legislation to fix this issue will not work; and a chapter from a 30-year election worker named May Schmidt about why hand-counted paper ballot elections worked so much more smoothly and efficiently than electronically executed elections. Vickie and I each contributed a chapter also.

Q: What is the most misunderstood thing about this issue?

Vickie: There are really three things. FIRST: The idea that computers are still the solution to our election process, because many believe that since we are in the computer age, there must be a technological way to fix these machines: Either a better software program, or open source code. If I had a dollar for every techie "expert" who approached us with the "perfect software idea" to "fix" these machines, I could retire today! Computers are fallible and crash and lose data every day. And that is true even if no one is TRYING to hack them - let alone when the software appears to be designed for hacking, as many computer experts who have reviewed the software and the machines theorize. Many in the Election Integrity movement are technology people, but they will readily state that computers have no place running our elections.

SECOND: That adding printers for a "voter verifiable paper audit trail", and conducting recounts or audits will solve election fraud. (2007 Congress: HR 811; in "HACKED!": HR 550) It's just not going to happen! Both recounts and audits have been rigged, as we now know based on the March '07 conviction and sentencing to 18 months in prison of two election workers in Ohio for rigging the 2004 Presidential election recount there. Indicted, convicted, and sentenced, two and a half years later. And we're being told by media, "Don't worry, it didn't affect the outcome of the election!" No one has proven that to us! Then there's the court challenge to Florida's District 13 Congressional race from November 2006, where ES&S touchscreen machines were used and there was an undervote of 18,000 in that race! That means that supposedly 18,000 people came in, voted, but didn't vote in that particular race. The losing candidate filed a court challenge, since the race was decided by 369 votes. An audit was conducted that did not satisfy the challenger. Later, Brad Friedman reported on Bradblog.com that a letter from ES&S was found which dictated the terms of the audit to the state election officials. We cannot rely on recounts. We cannot rely on audits. We have to get it right on election night!

THIRD: That returning to paper ballots, counted by optical scan counters, is an improvement over touchscreen voting! WRONG! It’s the optical scan counter that was hacked in minutes in the Emmy-award nominated HBO documentary “HACKING DEMOCRACY” by Bev Harris’s “hacking Team”. Scanners are computers and they are as easily hacked as touchscreens. We have to get rid of ALL of the computers currently involved in elections, PERIOD!

Q: How do you assess the progress made in the election integrity movement, if any?

Abbe: There has been massive progress, especially in the last quarter of 2007! There is so much more documented evidence now to support the principles of our book, far more than when it was originally published. In August 2007, California Secretary of State Bowen decertified for use in her state the voting machines manufactured by three of the top four vendors (Premier, formerly Diebold; Hart InterCivic; and Sequoia) because of damning evidence on the ease of hacking & flipping election results produced by the University of California "top-to-bottom" study she commissioned on the voting machines. Then she decertified the fourth, ES&S, after learning that the company had sold uncertified voting machines to five counties in California. In the last few weeks of 2007, both Ohio and Colorado released studies on the electronic voting machines used in those states, with similar results: Each of those states decertified three of those top four vendors! 

Vickie: Even though some of the systems have now been recertified after supposedly modifying their software, we, the citizens, are still in the same position as before. How do we know it is safe for handling our votes? Can anyone prove my vote was properly counted? The answer is NO.

Another documentary condemning of electronic voting problems aired on HD TV this August, produced by Dan Rather. Princeton University published scathing conclusions on the ease with which they hacked real electronic voting machines in 2006; the California, Ohio, and Colorado studies prove that it’s easy to have a paper “trail” reading the way the voter cast their ballot, while inside the software is recording the vote a different way—something we highly suspected but did not know for certain until recently. 

All of this just validates what Bev Harris and her team of computer experts had already proven, starting in 2003: These machines cannot be trusted, they are easy to hack, and they can't be made safe. We are quite certain that the solution is HAND COUNTED PAPER BALLOTS with enhanced security procedures, all the way! If we don't reach that goal by the Presidential primaries of 2008, we feel the results could be disastrous. But we are eternal optimists.

Q: So you think time is running out for a solution? Why is it so important to get this out now?

Abbe: We are hoping we are reaching critical mass right now because of the recent victory in California, Ohio, and Colorado, and the fact that lawsuits are starting to break out across the country against these voting machine vendors; and because of the additional media attention, but we don't know yet if this will be enough. This is the boondoggle of the century: Taxpayers are paying for the very systems that are likely stealing their votes! Over 80% of the votes in the 2004 election were electronically recorded or counted, and this percentage will increase in upcoming elections. If Secretaries of State and county election officials are not forced to be responsive to all of the documented fraud, we could still have 2008 elections executed with these fraudulent systems. Each and every citizen can and must get involved to make their officials accountable to them for restoring fair and safe elections across the country!

Vickie: Even when all three of the above listed states had decertified machines manufactured by all top four vendors, the alternative being presented in many cases is using paper ballots counted by optical scan counters! As I mentioned previously, this is just as problematic as using the touch screens, given the history of recounts and audits being rigged if results don’t match up. We have got to eliminate all electronics from the election day execution. The argument that HAVA requires them is simply not true and is widely misunderstood or misinterpreted by many election officials:

The HAVA law mandated that the disabled have a voting system that allows them to vote without assistance. In 2002, only electronic voting systems provided that ability. Now, there are at least two non-electronic voting systems that provide the disabled the ability to vote without assistance: The Vote-PAD, and the Equalivote. We are urging our own Texas Secretary of State to fast-track one of these systems for HAVA compliance for the disabled prior to the primary election here in March, and to execute the elections with hand-counted paper ballots, with enhanced security procedures: Videocameras on the ballot box; the ballot box never leaves the precinct until all votes are counted by citizens who represent all parties with a vested interest in the election; and totals are posted at the precinct level. 

Q: What do you hope people will do after reading this book?

Vickie: Now, with the quantity of evidence to prove fraud on these electronic systems, there is simply no longer any reason that citizens should tolerate their use! The ammunition to fight these systems is being provided to each and every citizen through the documented work of experts. We hope all of our readers, and the readers of this interview, will "adopt an election official" today and become relentless in their quest to take back their elections by continuously demanding that our elected officials reverse this insanity! Start with your Secretary of State, then adopt your County Election Official, and DON'T LET UP!

Abbe: Right! We hope that they will take action. We hope they will understand that it is not a partisan issue and people of all political persuasions are losing if we continue using the electronic voting systems. We must go, not back, but forward to hand-counted paper ballots!

We really need some foundations to step forward and fund a massive multi-pronged national educational program to educate the public regarding why hand counting paper ballots is a safe, viable solution. There has been such a long standing misinformation campaign on voting and elections. We need for citizens, children and students to want to participate in their democracy. There needs to be a resurgence and pride associated with elections, voting, and participation in government of, by and for the people. A renewed desire to want to help on election day. A renewed excitement if you will.

Q: So you believe then, that citizens and election officials should consider returning to hand-counted paper ballots?

Abbe: Yes, absolutely and immediately! Hand-counted paper ballots with citizens executing elections, monitoring, and counting; with videocameras on the ballot box, which never leaves the table from the time the election begins until after the seals are broken and the count is complete, and members of all participating parties who are counting agree on the totals, which are then posted at the precinct level. While not a perfect system, the potential for fraud is much lower than any electronically executed election. The reason why is more clearly detailed in our book. May Schmidt, a 30 year veteran election judge, describes how easily and effectively paper ballots are hand-counted throughout the day at the precinct level with bipartisan teams of election judges. It is called citizen oversight, an important part of our democracy removed with the use of computerized voting. We need a return to this simple, cost-effective, accountable way to vote in America.

Vickie: Millions of taxpayer dollars have been spent and are still being spent on computerized voting equipment that requires expensive maintenance contracts, special storage facilities, licensing fees, software upgrades, and high cost to train non-technical election workers. Counties could go bankrupt supporting these systems! Many of the election officials we've spoken with in Texas are furious that their election budgets are being busted with these burdensome systems---not to mention the problems many of them have had with the vendors meeting their contractual obligations for software upgrades and training.

Election Day should be a holiday. Like jury duty, we should develop a system to have ample multipartisan citizen participation to volunteer to work the election and count the votes. As we mentioned, videocameras should record the ballot box all day, and the hand-counting at the end of the day, shown to the public on community access channels to ensure public scrutiny. We need a return to citizen run elections, and according to an August 2006 Zogby poll commissioned by election law attorney and activist Paul Lehto, 92% of Americans expressed a strong preference to view vote counting and obtain information about it. A fellow activist, Nancy Tobi of "Democracy for New Hampshire", has compiled a handbook on how to conduct a hand-counted paper ballot election that could be used as a model for all 50 states with minor modifications. It really is not rocket science!

Q: What do you expect your book will impact or initiate?

Vickie: People must understand this, as one of the Founding Fathers said: The price of liberty is eternal vigilance. This is not a quick fix. And yet we're in a very real race, because of the upcoming elections next year, to help people totally "get" that their votes are likely being stolen. WE, the PEOPLE, have to get up off our couches, turn off "American Idol", and DO something! Or we very well may end up with the wrong person in the White House AGAIN, as we believed happened during the last two presidential elections.

Abbe: We want this issue to become front page news as it should be. We're on a limited timeframe for people to take action and we want our readers to understand that. It's a very serious situation-- it took a book of this depth to explain what is really going on and how all the various components have brought us to this point.

Q: Can people hit your site for information on how to order the book? And things to do to take action?

Abbe: Absolutely, they will find actionable steps to take today to help fight this loss of citizen-controlled elections. The web site address is http://www.hackedelections.com, and the book can be ordered there or through Amazon. We also list other web sites for further research.

Vickie: If we can inspire even one person to take action, we will consider ourselves successful!